Balance Issues with the ACR



  • Before you read the rest of this wall'o text, please understand that this is just a suggestion and i know that plutonium devs said that they didnt want to change any of the base game balance but i'd really would appreciate them (you, in case you're a dev and didnt ignore because of the title) to read this and give it a thought or two, and comment on whatever your opinion is on the matter.

    Feature: Nerf the ACR or Buff the other Assault Rifles

    Description: Accounting for RPM, Reload Speed, Damage, Range, Kick and Centerspeed, the ACR is way too strong to be considered "Balanced" in any way at all. Suggestions for balancing nerfs (choose one):

    -Lower damages to 34-25, also lower center speed to 1000
    -Increase kick values to the same as in the CM901
    -Increase ADS-in time from 0.30s to 0.35s.

    Motivation: Since the release of MW3, ive always been bothered at how good the ACR is. The reasons behind this are as follows:

    -Reload Speed: 1.90s when non-empty, 2.5s when empty and 1.1s reload cancel time, this gun is not only the fastest reloading assault rifle but also one of the fastest reloading weapons in the game, literally the only other weapons that can reload faster than the ACR are pistols. This shouldnt be changed though, as i feel that it'd need changes to the animations and would be too much trouble.

    -Damage: 45-30, highest minimum damage in the AR category (except for the MK14) and very forgiving maximum damage. The fact that this weapon has such a good damage, already cast big shadows on its many lower damage brothers.

    -Kick: Overall, lowest kick values in the game make the gun very easy to use without the need of the kick proficiency.

    -Range: Damage Drop starts at 20mts and stops at 30mts, meaning its maximum (no silenced, no range proficiency) 3 shot kill range sits at about 27mts, fairly long 3shot kill range at that as well. To put this into perspective, most of gunfights happen at about 18mts or less, so unless you're trying to kill someone across the map or behind cover, they should die in 3 BODY shots most of the time.

    Final Conclusion: This gun has such good overall stats it just amazes me how anyone can think its ok. I did not list any AR buffs because that would need much more testing and comparison.



  • Bud the ACR is not the issue. Give the MP7 a recoil pattern.



  • @super213 said in Balance Issues with the ACR:

    Bud the ACR is not the issue. Give the MP7 a recoil pattern.

    The MP7 gets pissed on by the UMP and the PP99 any day.

    Tho, some less centerspeed wouldnt hurt



  • Well Im pretty sure SCAR is the fastest reloading AR just because you can cancel the animation, just like with magnum.

    Either way, yes ACR is stupidly OP and every cod has few guns that are unbalanced.
    I doubt that devs would do it, but Im all up for weapon balance, just to make other ARs, or SMGs viable to use.
    As of now, there 3 weapons that could need some nerfing:
    ACR - best mid range gun in game, give it some recoil
    MP7 - best overall gun, give it A LOT of recoil
    pp99m - best short range gun, lower the damage

    And there are also completely useless weapons in the game, that are totally terrible at any situation:
    M4, FAD, dragunov, g13

    The idea is nice and some modders could do a custom mod for their servers, probably looking like adjusting the damage to different hitboxes and ranges, but nothing much more. For the whole client that simply wouldnt feel right.



  • @amic_towelie said in Balance Issues with the ACR:

    Well Im pretty sure SCAR is the fastest reloading AR just because you can cancel the animation, just like with magnum.

    Either way, yes ACR is stupidly OP and every cod has few guns that are unbalanced.
    I doubt that devs would do it, but Im all up for weapon balance, just to make other ARs, or SMGs viable to use.
    As of now, there 3 weapons that could need some nerfing:
    ACR - best mid range gun in game, give it some recoil
    MP7 - best overall gun, give it A LOT of recoil
    pp99m - best short range gun, lower the damage

    And there are also completely useless weapons in the game, that are totally terrible at any situation:
    M4, FAD, dragunov, g13

    The idea is nice and some modders could do a custom mod for their servers, probably looking like adjusting the damage to different hitboxes and ranges, but nothing much more. For the whole client that simply wouldnt feel right.

    actually, the animation cancel from the scar is the same time as on the ACR, theres nothing that goes below that threshold, not even pistols.

    M4, has a place, its the fastest 3shot-to-kill fullauto AR, 2nd faster reloading AR tied with M16 at 2.03s

    FAD was basically made to be a silenced rifle given it kills at 4 shots at any range and its surpricingly fast, with good sights and big mags, its also faster movement speed, aiming speed and more accurate from the hip.

    I have no idea what the g13 is.


  • Regional Moderator

    Would be nice if someone will rebalance it as a server-sided custom mod



  • @kerrangr

    I haven't checked their stats, I'm talking about the general feel of the weapons in the game. SCAR is easier to use than ACR in close combat because I feel like it can perform better when reloading and cancelling the animation, for me it just seems faster imo. ACR is the overall winner for me just because it shoots a beam with not a big flinch when hit and it doesnt loose much damage on wallbanging. M4 and FAD are completely useless weapons because they will not give you kills where MK14, ACR or SCAR will give, and it is not about the skill needed to operate those weapons.The same could be said about cm901 and g36c, they are simply inferior to the big 3 of ARs.

    SMG's are a bit different story, MP7 is the clear winner here just because it is shooting a laser beam making it possible to beat any AR at long range, even the ACR in some situations. The only con is that it has zero damage through walls. pp90m and p90 are quite superior to anything else in short range against crowded areas, but MP7 makes it up in the long range. I have been "sniped" across the map with MP7 enough times to know it is 2op4me.

    Same could be said about snipers. MSR and L118A are superior for their 1 shot damage, and mobility is better than Barretts. Dragunov, RSASS and M21 are useless sniper rifles because of their damage, the MP7 can outgun them easily at long range. But AS50 is like worse version of barrett.

    I meant G18 and scorpion are quite bad as secondaries, same as MP412. Nobody who wants to actually peform well, is using those guns, while MP9 is basically a downgraded version of MP7.

    Again, Im talking about feel and what player see, not about stats. What good are the weapon stats if they don't show the actual picture?

    Every cod has weapons that are used more than others for being it easier to kill with them, and it varies from title to title. Look at cod4 vs mw3, ak47 is now nerfed, deagle is nerfed, mk14 is buffed but G36 is as useless as it was :D

    So yeah, custom mods can rebalance the issues, but I doubt that these servers will be very populated, hence this discussion not worthwhile



  • I agree with Towel,it shouldn't be a base game change,but rather a mod
    Also the ACR isn't as strong as you think when you consider something like the Scar and the MK14 exist,Also the AK47 still has a very high damage,ACR is most known for its very high accuracy and non existent recoil,But imo the Scar is actually better considering its reload and ADS time,G36C isn't that bad really
    M4 is a piece of shit if you use a silencer on it
    Type95 was already nerfed by IW
    M16 is a piece of shit but who even uses a burst fire rifle these days.
    MP7 is still the best gun in the game hands down
    Just the PM9 can beat it at short range but its recoil is higher than snoop dog at 4:20PM really.
    Only thing imo that would actually need a nerf is the MP7
    decrease the fire rate or put some recoil to that shit


  • VIP

    Simplest solution for the MP7 would be halving its damage and having the recoil it has in SP. And making the other guns that are basically useless (AA-12, FAD etc) actually worth taking up class space.



  • @amic_towelie said in Balance Issues with the ACR:

    @kerrangr

    I haven't checked their stats, I'm talking about the general feel of the weapons in the game. SCAR is easier to use than ACR in close combat because I feel like it can perform better when reloading and cancelling the animation, for me it just seems faster imo. ACR is the overall winner for me just because it shoots a beam with not a big flinch when hit and it doesnt loose much damage on wallbanging. M4 and FAD are completely useless weapons because they will not give you kills where MK14, ACR or SCAR will give, and it is not about the skill needed to operate those weapons.The same could be said about cm901 and g36c, they are simply inferior to the big 3 of ARs.

    SMG's are a bit different story, MP7 is the clear winner here just because it is shooting a laser beam making it possible to beat any AR at long range, even the ACR in some situations. The only con is that it has zero damage through walls. pp90m and p90 are quite superior to anything else in short range against crowded areas, but MP7 makes it up in the long range. I have been "sniped" across the map with MP7 enough times to know it is 2op4me.

    Same could be said about snipers. MSR and L118A are superior for their 1 shot damage, and mobility is better than Barretts. Dragunov, RSASS and M21 are useless sniper rifles because of their damage, the MP7 can outgun them easily at long range. But AS50 is like worse version of barrett.

    I meant G18 and scorpion are quite bad as secondaries, same as MP412. Nobody who wants to actually peform well, is using those guns, while MP9 is basically a downgraded version of MP7.

    Again, Im talking about feel and what player see, not about stats. What good are the weapon stats if they don't show the actual picture?

    Every cod has weapons that are used more than others for being it easier to kill with them, and it varies from title to title. Look at cod4 vs mw3, ak47 is now nerfed, deagle is nerfed, mk14 is buffed but G36 is as useless as it was :D

    So yeah, custom mods can rebalance the issues, but I doubt that these servers will be very populated, hence this discussion not worthwhile

    well, both the MSR and L118A are slower so mistakes are harder to correct while all the other snipers are semi auto, i think the best one overall is the Barret bc its a 1 shot semi auto, and thats why its blocked most of the time.

    Also, you're mistaking the point some weapons have with their performance.

    On the AR section, the M4 and the Scar are quite different, the M4 performs better as close range and allaround its a good weapon with really good damage and penetration potential, but the scar has the lower recoil and arguably better sights and range.

    On the SMGS, id normally see the mp7 blocked from snd servers, so the PP99 gets the most use out of them because its so good at close range, with the ump being in a close second as its basically a light assault rifle, mp5 is basically a faster ump, and p90 is really good for sustained fire, the pm9 gets no love because no one uses it correctly and to be honest, im the only one still using it most of the time, because i know how to exploit its ridioculous rate of fire.

    Do bear in mind im talking about competitive snd performance, tbh most of scrubs play tdm any ways so whatever weapon they like its better in those cases but its not at all subjective when it comes to performing well with weapons in a snd server so you need to use the good ones and be a good player to not die.

    Also, the G36 is pretty good, its got good fire rate and damage, the recoil can be a problem buy only at long ranges


  • Project Moderator

    In *actual competitive SnD all this crap is blocked. Only AK47, UMP45 and L118a are mostly used.



  • @kerrangr It's a bit hard to take your points seriously for these reasons:

    • Barrett, pp90m, mp7, p90, pm9, mp7 that you are talking about, are all banned in competitive SnD. How can you even discuss them if they are prohibited to use?
    • M4 is probably the most useless gun in MW3, I have never ever seen anybody use it in competitive SnD at ESL.
    • The exact reason that you are trying to explain me about competitive SnD performance is completely laughable, sorry.

    @theelitedon said in Balance Issues with the ACR:

    In *actual competitive SnD all this crap is blocked. Only AK47, UMP45 and L118a are mostly used.

    ACR, UMP45, MSR* are the mainly ones with few exceptions ^^



  • Off-topic; the big font size is really annoying imo